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Veil's Sacrifice by 1-Renaissance Veil's Sacrifice by 1-Renaissance
Outcast of Redwall

I read Outcast of Redwall the first time a few years ago and to be honest, it took me a while to come to terms with Veil's death. To make matters worse, Bryony came to her own conclusion that Veil was evil. After I read that part I was sick to my stomach. Even as I remember I have that feeling in my gut. Either that or I'm hungry.

I wanted to sketch this scene a couple of months ago but failed miserably. Yesterday I wanted to try again and it took me a freaking long time. This scene gave me the inspiration to actually make the night background. I don't think I've ever tried that but here it is. :D


Veil rocks!!!!

SPOILER WARNRING!!!!!!!!
I know the book left that argument if he was good or bad, but I say he's good. Do the math. When Swartt found Bryony, Veil came to her rescue and got in a violent brawl with him and is thrown down roughly to the ground. When Bryony attempts to release Sunflash from his bonds, Swartt gets a spear to throw at her and Veil rises to defend Bryony, resulting in his death as the spear accidentally hits him instead when he leaps in front of her.

Now to Bryony's question: Would Veil have taken the spear if he knew the his father would throw it? That doesn't matter. He did try to save her from him.

So...go Veil!!

But although I really hate how that ended, I actually kind of like the argument Brian Jacques brought out in the end.

By the way, Veil's a ferret if there are those who don't know. And I did change his appearance a little from the first time I drew him. Thought a tuft of headfur would do.

================================
Artwork is mine, Outcast of Redwall and all these characters here belong to the one and only Brian Jacques! :D:D:D
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:iconstormfiregirl:
StormFireGirl Featured By Owner Mar 25, 2015
Actually everyone's wrong. I counted 6. It isn't the paw held up! :3 amazing drawing by the way! Veil has always been a personal fav
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:icontallstar124:
tallstar124 Featured By Owner Aug 10, 2013  Hobbyist Artist
Veil has 6 claw on his left paw...u gave him 5...constructive critisism
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:iconrowdy30410:
rowdy30410 Featured By Owner Jun 22, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
HE ONLY HAS FIVE CLAWS! But other than that, I love it :)
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:iconseth223:
seth223 Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2013  Student General Artist
This is the most intellectual and mature RW book. I found it extremely sad. Poor Veil.
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:iconlazyrayfinkle:
LazyRayFinkle Featured By Owner Jan 11, 2012
Yeah, go Veil. I always had hope for him. I blame the environment he grew up in more than genetics. Hardly anyone believed in him or cared for him.

Nice work!
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:iconsandstorm-the-kind:
Sandstorm-The-Kind Featured By Owner Jul 17, 2011  Student General Artist
Although it wasn't one of my favorite in the series, I did like that is was different from the rest. In the rest of the series there is a distinction between who is good and who is evil, while in this one there was an area in between. It's kind of like in Star Wars, sure Vader was evil during his life, but he turned out to be good in the end. But I do agree, I like the argument. It's all matter of opinion. It's one of those that it's fun to argue with people about!
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:icontoonpatrol1212:
Toonpatrol1212 Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
poor veil :icondragonweepplz::icondragoncryingplz::iconcryforeverplz:
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:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner Jul 10, 2011
Hahaha! I liked that last icon. Wow, if you put it THAT way.
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:icontoonpatrol1212:
Toonpatrol1212 Featured By Owner Jul 10, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It's so sad.
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:icontoonpatrol1212:
Toonpatrol1212 Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
poor veil :icondragonweep1:
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:iconchibigingi:
chibigingi Featured By Owner May 7, 2011  Student Traditional Artist
Well, it could be argued that Bryony only said he was evil so that she could help herself come to terms with his death in the first place. It's a long stretch, but it's something to consider, I guess?

But seriously, I can't stand that books ending, and BJ's (may he rest in peace) heavy black and white view of good and evil in his works. I love his works, don't get me wrong, but he's essentially breaking it down into genetics, that you're born good or evil and ultimately have no say so in the end.

Sure, you can have your neutral races or RARE occasions (Gingivere and the other Wildcats in "Mossflower", Romsca in "Pearls of Lutra", or Log-a-Log Tugga Bruster and his death at the hands of a rat, and we the readers actually CHEERING for it). It's one of those things that irk the hell out of me, but I can't put the books down. They're so damn addictive. I just wish his works weren't so black and white, and then downright hypocritical (reading 'The Sable Quean' at the moment and I find it disgusting that we're suppose to be applauding the Goodbeasts as they're literally bullying and harassing a Ferret for information. YEAH, I know their Dibbuns are kidnapped, but that's no need to act like barbarians yourself.)
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:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner May 29, 2011
Yeah, that's what I hated. Splitting it up like that as if no one had a choice. But in a way, it heightens the awe and respect for the "vermin" that are different. But it really does suck knowing there's no choice overall. Yes, about the Goodbeasts and some of their actions, it does get annoying sometimes because we're reminded of the genetics. I couldn't help but stand by your opinion that the they really are addicting.


Wow, thanks. Do you realize you gave me a jumpstart to getting back to my writing? The whole thing about good vs evil in genetics reminded me of the choice I made to ditch that solid categorization. Thanks a lot. :D Inspiration!
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:iconchibigingi:
chibigingi Featured By Owner May 30, 2011  Student Traditional Artist
I'm glad I could help. I was afraid I was throwing a wall of text on your piece, but I think you did well on not only presenting art, but a good topic of debate, so I had to add my input.

It's something that's always bothered me- good vs evil and genetics. I took a sociology class and the main topic for awhile was eugenics, the study of how genetics are used to DETERMINE how a person will be, and believe me, the stuff that you'll read in there would make you sick (well, it made ME sick). The person you are and the person you'll ultimately be is all traced down to your genetics, which leads to believe that some people are superior than others and those inferior cannot help it because it's in their genes. That's what they truly believe (and what's worse is their methods of 'correcting' these genetic flaws, like for those suffering from bipolar syndrome are given a lobotomy... castrating those who might spread the 'diseased genes' and so forth).

See where I'm getting at? I'm certain that Mr. Jacques didn't believe in this, but it seems heavily hinted at in a lot of his works. The whole ordeal with Veil is more or less 'self fulfilling prophecy' over 'eugenics', but still, the thought it there. And yet, I still love his books...
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:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner Jul 10, 2011
Your wall of text was definitely welcome since it was a wall of interesting points and arguments not many Redwall fans consider. Maybe they do but their love for the stories overrides their negative judgement of the genetic issue.

Heh, that's beyond disgusting. The subject of our very personas and thinking is based on the components of our genetic makeup. As if we didn't have a choice. But some people just look for a scientific excuse to justify their actions or the actions of others.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Correcting flaws? What kind of fascist bullshit are they doing? Correcting a flaw like bipolarity would eventually advance into correcting any trait disagreeable to the majority of society. They're wasting their time on this.

In the end, what can we say? We love Redwall.
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:iconheathertrelawney:
HeatherTrelawney Featured By Owner Mar 21, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Nice drawing, it looks really wonderful!!:aww: I had forgotten where that part of the book took place, at first when remembering, I thought it took place in the bat caves.:)

Wonderful drawing, I love your version of Veil, he looks kinda cute.:aww:
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:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2011
Not IN the bat caves, more like around the top somewhere outside the exit. :D

And thanks!
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:iconheathertrelawney:
HeatherTrelawney Featured By Owner Apr 23, 2011  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Ah, I see, thanks! :aww:

You're welcome! :)
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:iconyiskah-chan:
Yiskah-chan Featured By Owner Nov 26, 2010  Hobbyist Photographer
Omg! I love this! How you showed Veil struggle with himself and Bryony pleading with Veil to be saved and to be the savior. :D
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:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2010
That's one of the reasons I particularly loved that one. Jacques added that character the readers have to reconsider. He doesn't give an answer.

Thanks!
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:iconyiskah-chan:
Yiskah-chan Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2010  Hobbyist Photographer
Love it. :D
Reply
:iconfoeseeker-warrior:
Foeseeker-warrior Featured By Owner Sep 23, 2010
Haha, as sad as that scene is that blank look on Bryony's face is classic. She is sooooooo not the warrior type, and so naturally she wouldn't have as fast reflexes as a fighter.

THAT. BACKGROUND. ROCKS.
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:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner Oct 1, 2010
Sometimes I just wanted to hit her because of her usual goody-goodyness. She could have watered it down just a little bit and we'd be cool. But she has guts to go that far after Veil, I'll give her that. :D


Thanks and that background left the side of my hand silvery gray. :D
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:iconvailwolf:
Vailwolf Featured By Owner Apr 17, 2010  Hobbyist
That scene was so sad! I love Veil, it's how I got my username, actually.. Cept I changed the spelling a bit.
Awesome drawing. :3
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:iconjosephtheweasel:
JosephtheWeasel Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2010   Writer
Yes finally someone agrees with me, Veil Sixclaw is GOOD! And I would shout it to the heavens!
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:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2010
Yeah, and I could give a big explanation about why but that may take some time, especially if it's about Veil.
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:icongreenskullplz:
GreenSkullplz Featured By Owner Mar 3, 2010
I like veil so I created my own good ferret called Fritz in my own redwall books I have been making.

Also Fantastic artwork matey :)
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:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner Mar 4, 2010
Another writer, eh? Awesome. The world could use more of those in these times where we have uncultured materialistic people who place no value on intellectualism. Heh, heh, maybe I could have shortened that. :D

Also, thanks. :iconpineappletardplz:
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:icongreenskullplz:
GreenSkullplz Featured By Owner Mar 8, 2010
In my story Fritz the Ferret falls in love with a Ottermaid named Vanilla
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:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner Mar 9, 2010
That's both sweet and sad.
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:icongreenskullplz:
GreenSkullplz Featured By Owner Mar 12, 2010
yeah at first it was hard for him but then it started to get easy and he married her
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:iconwarriormaid15:
warriormaid15 Featured By Owner Feb 28, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
Sweet! Looks aweseomtastic! Love the detail and the expression on Veil's face.

Yay! Veil! :boogie:
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:iconsilverchaucer:
silverchaucer Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2010
I truly believe Veil was actually good in the last moments of his life.
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:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner Feb 26, 2010
Aye. I believe he was too. :D
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:iconweasel-girl:
weasel-girl Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010  Hobbyist General Artist
Even though he's a rude little bugger, I still love Veil. :D
I still believe that he had some good in him, and I always hated how the Redwallers treated him.

Also in the end, I was really pissed off how Bryony said that Veil was evil all along (Although my reaction was nothing like my sister's reaction). But reading Kelaiah's comment did inspired some thought and I fully agree with it. So maybe Bryony wasn't so dense after all.
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:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010
:boogie:
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:iconike5000282:
Ike5000282 Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010  Student Traditional Artist
I just noticed something. Does Bryony's arm that's behind the post look like it's wierd like it's double jointed or something?
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:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010
I guess I may have overlooked that. I should have placed the upper arm a bit higher.


....that does look weird.
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:iconantonioguitarmouse:
AntonioGuitarmouse Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010
:boogie::boogie::boogie:EVERYONE WINS :boogie::boogie::boogie:
Reply
:iconalizerasong:
AlizeraSong Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010  Student Digital Artist
The Outcast raises a lot of questions about if Veil was good or evil, but he was actually in the grey area. Also eventually if you're told something enough you will become that, because you believe that's what's expected of you. I'd imagine that while growing up Veil didn't have many friends at the abbey. And was more than likely blamed for anything bad happening (like missing or broken items) by the adults. Minus Bryony. So the influence of all "vermin-like" creatures being evil, bad, stupid, etc. had an effect on him. Ah, meh, it was also an ending you had to think about.

On the artwork, wonderful as always! I agree with Kelaiah, I really like Bryony's face, yet her outfit is different then wht I'd draw or see her in. But yet the detail you put into you piture is great! I simply adore Veil's design! He looks great, and I really like the hair tuff.:D
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:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010
*sigh* I was thinking about those detail's about Veil's upbringing. Kind of depressing actually. I'm okay now. :D

And thanks. :D
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:iconalizerasong:
AlizeraSong Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010  Student Digital Artist
Yeah it is pretty upsetting. But after thinking about it was necessary. Yet Bryony shouldn't have had said he was completely evil. That rather irritated me.

Welcome!:D
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:iconkelaiah:
Kelaiah Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010
I too say that Veil was good, but I do also say that he was bad. *Was* bad.

And that is what Bryony said, she that he *WAS* bad. Beforehand, Bryony refused to see any of the evil deeds that Veil did, and she was finally coming to terms with that.

And besides, Veil told her to go back to the abbey, which she did, but how could she go on living there among all those beasts who doubted and hated Veil? So, in order to honor Veil's dying wish, she said that she doubted Veil's goodness so she could go back to the abbey. And besides, its possible that when she became abbess she made certain that no creature was ever treated the same way as Veil was ever again.

And its interesting to note that ever since then, vermin have been treated considerably nicer (Chickenhound, Dingeye and Thura, Slipp and Blaggut, Grubbage, etc), they're always taken in and cared for and given the benefit of the doubt, no matter how many times their history records say that the vermin often (though not always) turned against them. Perhaps Abbess Bryony had something to do with this?

Anyway, on with the pic:

I like how you drew Bryony's face, she looks really sweet. I'm a little iffy on her outfit, but that's because I've always pictured her in a dress/habit rather than a tunic.

Veil looks good too, though his physical position looks slightly awkward. I wish I could say more but I have to drive my mom somewhere, so... until later! :D
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:icondcleadboot:
DCLeadboot Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Ah, that's certainly a good point there! :)
So Veil had his was bad side, but at least we could acknowledge that it was largely influenced by all those accusing eyes that said from the start that "no good will ever come of this one".
Well, maybe, in some indirect way, some longterm good came of it. It taught Bryony some experience, and it perhaps shamed the early Redwallers for being less tolerant than they are these days! :XD:
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:iconkelaiah:
Kelaiah Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010
Yep, although I think genetics ought to be taken into consideration as well: if compare Veil to Swartt (and Bowflegg, his grandfather) you would see some parallels between them, showing that Veil inherited both his father and grandfather's temper; Veil was impatient, cheeky, and rather mood-swingy. So his bad attitude may have had something to do with it as well - but I do agree that the Redwallers were wrong in constantly accusing Veil without proof, and for not giving him a chance, not even when he was a baby.

But yes, only during the time of Veil were the Redwallers prejudiced, but in the times after that, they were far more tolerant. :)
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:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010
In that case Veil should have had some of his mother's characteristics.
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:iconkelaiah:
Kelaiah Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010
Yep, y'got that right. :)
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:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010
You know, what you said about Veil and how Bryony must have changed things, makes me feel a whole lot better. It really does. :hug: I should write that explanation on the bathroom wall. Heh, heh, just kidding. :D I have no idea why I never thought of that.

Now about more Veil. His position was a bit more challenging to do so it's no surprise that I messed up a little. There's no denying that. :D

Now to Bryony's outfit. I was going to give her a dress but then I was pleased how her legs turned out. So I couldn't cover too much of that. Heh heh, I just have that weird habit. :D

Again thank you so much, mate! Especially for your thoughts and views of the argument. :D A big weight has been lifted from my back.
Reply
:iconkelaiah:
Kelaiah Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010
:aww: Heh heh, thanks mate, glad to help. :D :hug:

Yeah, but you still did a good idea on designing him, I like the fur tuft, btw. :) :D

Ah, I see, about Bryony. Heh heh, I've been through that too, I make legs so nice but then I have to cover them with a long skirt. Bleah. :XD: Heh heh.

And your welcome, matey! :D Glad to be of assistance. :D
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:iconhylastreefrog:
HylasTreeFrog Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010
that's one of the sadest RW scenes.
Why he died for a stupid mouse and a ugly badger? :( :crying:
Reply
:icon1-renaissance:
1-Renaissance Featured By Owner Feb 19, 2010
You know I never saw it like that when it came to Veil dying for them. I still don't. Imagine what would he have done if he let Bryony die?

Although, I do believe Kelaiah's comment about that was nothing short of uplifting.
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